A Hidden Account Killing Mistake - Using Credit Cards
Thursday, 19 February 2009 00:00

 
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by John Jagerson

Over the last few years it has become popular for forex dealers to offer an alternative funding method over wire transfers or checks. You can now fund most forex accounts through a credit card. The ratio of accounts funding their balances this way is increasing this year and it may be one of the things that has helped the forex industry to maintain some growth during the economic crisis.credit cards
shorting ETFs
   



  
   

Funding with a credit card is convenient but that is its only legitimate purpose. The danger for traders lies in the common practice for smaller traders to bulk up their account by "charging" their balance to their credit card without an intention to pay that balance off right away.

The logic behind this behavior is that traders assume that they can make more money in the market than they are paying in interest.  If that were true it would be an efficient use of capital or leverage. However, they only consider the net returns during a period of profitable trading. What are the affects of using debt to trade when you go through an unprofitable period? This is the trap within the leverage fallacy. Using debt as leverage not only decreases gains during periods of profitability but it amplifies losses during those inevitable periods of losses.

The bottom line is that this is a no-win situation that many traders are falling for. This fallacy helped create the problem speculators and borrowers are facing in the US housing market right now. Using credit cards for convenience is smart but using them to speculate in the currency market puts the odds against you.
Comments Add New
santillan_omar  - Forex trader net return   |2009-02-19 10:08:29
Hi john

You mentioned that in a profitable year
statistically good traders
make about 10 % of their accounts , is that it ? I 've seen reports were traders
make more than that in a month but what i'm trying to ask is, Do they end it up
giving back an evetually retreat from forex? you know because of their capital
management

What is it that you have seen over the years.
do really
succesful traders that manage to stay for years in forex make about 10 % in good
year no more , no skyrocking numbers?
John Jagerson  - Returns   |2009-02-19 10:17:29
The good news (or bad news) about forex trading is that it can be profitable but
just like every other capital market making 10% a month is a fiction. There are
a lot of claims out there that say otherwise but it can't be done in the long
term.

However, I have seen a lot of good traders do better than 10% a year
in the long term but that does include some drawdowns and it requires risk
tolerance. But nobody make 100% per year every year. No way.

I am of the
opinion that this is not bad news - its just the truth. Making 10-15% on an
investing strategy on average is not a bad thing. In fact, I think it sounds
pretty great. If you can make more by taking some extra risk - that is even
better if you are inclined to do it and have the capital to risk.
Jim  - Forex Trader - Net Return   |2009-02-21 05:24:26
I am in an investment group that returns approx. 24% a month - consistently. I
know of others that do less, and some individuals who do more. The truth is, if
you have a good system that works, and you don't get greedy and stupid - 10% a
month is very average. Risk management has a lot to do with it, and just common
sense. Like the song - "ya' gotta know when to fold 'em, know when to walk
away"!
John Jagerson  - Returns   |2009-02-21 05:52:53
Jim,

That is amazing but how many months have you been able to do that? Doing
it for one or two months is doable but then the inevitable draw downs occur. I
am talking about annual returns not just one or two months of really
extraordinary results.
Warren  - Take it from an old sage   |2009-02-21 06:16:15
I've been a forex investor for over 20 years now, first with a large institution
and later as an individual.

I've had great runs, and major down-falls. 10% a
month over more than 12 months simply isn't possible. If it were, everyone would
do it. Nobody would trade stocks, because a "sure bet" in the forex
market would be much more attractive.

Systems ALWAYS break. Plus, 99% of
forex traders aren't disciplined enough to stick with them anyway.

If you
can prove you've done 100% a year for more than one year, I'll pay you 2 million
dollars for your system. I'll even pay you if you've only done 25% a year for
more than two years.

I guarantee there will be no takers.
John Jagerson  - Warren   |2009-02-22 04:45:34
Old Sage,

Thanks for the message. That it right on point and I hope that more
traders take the good but very real advice seriously.
rbLoFi   |2009-02-26 11:38:24
Hmmmm. I really appreciate your advice and the conservative/realistic bent of
your opinions. I am a credit card funder and I think it's so great. When I
time it right based on my credit card statement closing date I can hold onto
their money for free for about 45 days. Because I've funded my account to such
a high level I get free wire transfer withdrawals from my broker and get to take
the money out quickly when I need to pay off the card balance. I also get to
keep the rewards I earn from the credit card transaction. So far I have earned
a free flight.

I'm very interested in the impossibility of 10% per month
returns. I believe you even though I don't want to. In my first two months of
trading I have earned outrageous returns (mostly scalping) that far exceed my
salary from my real job. I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for the
inevitable losses that are probably coming my way.
John Jagerson  - Returns   |2009-02-26 17:22:08
Yeah - enjoy them while you get them. Nothing wrong with some awesome months.
Use that experience to build up some capital but keep a handle on your risk and
you will survive the bad months too.
Steve  - Dr.   |2009-02-28 15:48:58
John,

I am amazed that you think consistently making 10% a month trading
forex is a fiction. I had never traded anything before, but I started trading
forex in October. I am still very much a novice, but I made a 19% profit just
last week even though I made many mistakes. In fact, I had in my best week so
far my profit was over 240%. And some traders using the same broker I use have
made over 1000% profit in just one month. I am very certain those traders who
sometimes make over 1000% profit in just a single month have no trouble at all
consistently making over 10% profit each month - without even hardly trying.
Warren  - Still waiting for proof   |2009-02-28 17:20:42
Hey Steve,

I've been in forex for over a decade, and I've been offering
millions of dollars for a forex trader to offer proof they are making returns
greater than 100% in a year.

In 10 years, nobody has proven it, despite the
fact that I've asked many directly to prove it and offered them millions of
dollars (and would gladly pay it).

The only answer is: It's complete
fiction. Like JOhn says, doing it for a few months is not hard, keeping it up
and not losing it all is much harder.

What you may also not know is what
forex dealers know, and that's that over 95% of their accounts are at zero in
the first year of trading.
John Jagerson  - Steve   |2009-03-02 02:19:54
Steve,

Look I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but some of us have
been in the market long enough to know what is good about it and what's bad
about it as well as what can be expected. If what you said was true professions
would pay you millions just to hear your secret. Time and truth will always
proves my point.
sridhar vumma  - Forex broker reliable with credit card   |2009-06-09 01:21:06
Hi,
Please suggest me the best broker that supports credit card and is also NFA
regulated or so i want to start with an account of 400 dollars USD
Please give
me advice as to rely on which broker
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