The New NFA Rules Won't Stop Hedgers

 
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by John Jagerson

In the last article, on the hedging ban from the NFA, we commented that hedging makes it impossible to profit and only winds up feeding your dealer or system seller an extra spread and rollover payment. This was the same rationale the NFA used to issue the new ruling. During the comment period no surveyed dealers were able to provide any evidence that hedging could enhance productivity or produce profits at all. Despite these issues we were surprised to receive very polar responses to the article. Considering this confusion we felt that it would be helpful to break down the issue into more a more detailed case study.hedging
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Click here to see the first article in this series on the NFA's new rules about hedging

About half the correspondence and comments sent to us were in favor of the new ruling and felt that it was about time the NFA stepped in to protect novice traders who are confused by the pseudo-benefits of hedging. The other half responded (very energetically) that it was us that were confused and that that hedging was key to creating profits. In the spirit of full disclosure some of the pro-hedging comments came from dealers, EA developers and system sellers. I can only assume that traders suffering from a market version of "Stockholm syndrome" was the source of the other comments.

The rationale presented by the pro-hedgers usually rested on the idea that if you were trading a long term strategy but wanted to scalp or short term trade a completely separate strategy you couldn't do it under the new rules. This is not quite correct. In fact, if you consider the effects of the new rules carefully you will see that the net effect on traders determined to "hedge" is nonexistent. They can continue to accomplish the same things they have been doing it just looks a little different within the account.

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This can be shown to be true in a short case study. Imagine that you are long 3 mini-lots of the EUR/USD in a long term trade. If you want to scalp 1 mini-lot of the EUR/USD short at the same time you might run into hedging problems. Because you are already long the EUR/USD adding another long scalp trade is fine under the new rules. The table below walks through the situation of a short scalp trade under the old rules and under the new anti-hedging rules. You will find that the bottom line is the same.

Old Hedging Rules
Anti - Hedging Rules
1. Existing Trade = 3K EUR/USD
2. Enter short scalp 1K EUR/USD



3. EUR/USD falls from 1.3000 to 1.2950

4. Long 3K EUR/USD losses = $-150
   Short 1K EUR/USD gains = $50
   Net Loss = $-100
   Loss plus spread = $-102
1. Existing Trade = 3K EUR/USD
2. Enter short scalp 1K EUR/USD

New Position = Long 2K EUR/USD

3. EUR/USD falls from 1.3000 to 1.2950

4. Long 2K EUR/USD losses = $-100

    Net Loss = $-100
     Loss plus spread = $-102

If hedgers can still accomplish the same things what are the purposes for the new rules? We contacted the NFA and asked the same question. They responded that essentially they were trying to end the misleading marketing of hedging as a potential source of profits. There are also other issues involved in hedging that present indefensible risks to novice traders. For example, a hedge increases the costs of roll-over and in an illiquid market hedgers are more likely to suffer losses from widening spreads. Although those issues are uncommon or may be small they do exist and since there are no possible offsetting benefits the practice is now banned.

In the video I will walk through a case example of a hedger trading under the old rules and under the new rules. You will be able to see that the bottom line is still the same although the mechanics have changed slightly and the costs have been lowered. You can run through the same numbers yourself in a variety of circumstances and the net results will look identical.

It is very important to understand that there is a lot of misinformation being marketed about hedging. Consider this; if your dealer/system/E.A. provider is lying to you about the value of hedging, what else are they lying about?


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Comments Add New
Anonymous  - The difference   |2009-05-05 18:36:15
There is a difference psychologically w the old and new rule.

The old rule
says "I made a small win to offset a big loss" while the new rule says
"I minimized my loss".

While my broker doesnt allow hedging anyway, I
am still very much against this ruling. As you demonstrate via the new rule you
still pay a spread to minimize your position so what exactly is the point of the
NFA sticking their noses on trader's business?

Maybe a constraint on the way
hedging is marketed or an option to allow or disallow hedging upon the trader's
request would have been more appropriate.

I am just afraid that this is a
sign of more things to come from the regulators. What's next? No more offsetting
positions by forex market makers , (no more mini lots)?
ati  - hedging   |2009-05-05 22:58:05
I certainly support new NFA regulation. As the example above demonstrated, you
can still have short term profit by decreasing lot size(selling at 1.3000) and
increasing it again(buying at 1.2950). all costs are equal.

I have been
trying hedging around 1 year and those short term positions didn't make profit
at all, I am breakeven. whereas long term trend trading is clearly a winner, I
made profit.
John Jagerson  - The difference   |2009-05-06 03:17:57
Yes - I would anticipate that more regulation is coming but keep in mind this is
not all bad. For example, new regulations increased the capitalization
requirements for dealers, increased disclosure requirements for dealers and
constrained their ability to adjust trades (accompanied the anti-hedging rule).


Most of the new regs are going to affect the dealer's ability to take
advantage of the client. THe anti-hedging rule is a good example. IT stops them
from getting the extra roll over and marketing it as a benefit but doesn't
constrain the client at all.
Meena  - My experience with hedging   |2009-05-06 07:41:39
very positive. I am an active forex trader and hedging is a very valuable
strategy for me.
Instead of a stop loss I place an order for a hedged position.
I do this when there is a big swing in price action that is going against the
main trend of my position. I profit both ways. Since I close the hedge position
when the swing in price turns around and also am able to protect my margin. If I
am completely wrong in my analysis my loss is limited to the difference between
the 2 positions and spread costs. And I can sleep at night....
I am transfering
my account to a company outside the US, London, that is more reasonable in their
regulations. There is already a mass exodus from US companies.
I think this new
regulations is just a show. "See they are regulating the forex
markets."
But as an active trader this new rule actually puts my accounts
at greater risk. Do any of these regulators actually have any experience in
John Jagerson  - Hedging   |2009-05-06 08:02:36
I have said my peace and I can see that everyone is very clearly on one side of
this issue or the other. I would encourage the discussion to continue though and
I think conversations around the value of regulation or no regulation is a good
one to have.

Based on the dealer stats we have seen, hedgers are a very
small percentage of the forex trader population (partially due to a high
burn-out rate) so this is probably not a big deal but it is a good catalyst for
productive debate and maybe a little education.
Mauro  - My experience with hedging   |2009-05-06 10:40:02
Meena, I don´t understand what advantage you get with hedging. If instead of
hedging you just close your position and then re-open it at the price you were
going to close the "hedge" then you get the same result. And you can
also sleep at night. If you can profit from both sides of the market then
you´ll never lose money, can you explain me how you do that? that sounds
great!

Anyway, I neither hedge nor close my position to re-enter at a better
price, I may end losing money, ha!! But that´s me. Hope you make lots of money
hedging. If it works for you, then that´s fine.
Anonymous  - The Nanny State   |2009-05-10 04:36:38
Please, why are we arguing about the benefits or not of the new rule?

My
problem is with the government regulating how a trader should trade. This is a
tough enough game, and I don't need anybody sticking their nose into my
business. I'm sick of them. Get this bureaucrats out of our life once and for
all.
Anonymous  - The Nanny State - - Continued   |2009-05-10 05:23:47
For all of you the pro anti hedging rule crowd here's something to think
about.

This is a matter of principle. You know very well how the regulators
world works. They are there to tell you how behave. There will not be long
before they'll come up with another none sense that will affect YOU. That will
be the time when I'll be here taking THEIR side and screw YOU over and in the
process we are all going down.

In the mean time, I'm taking all my money and
move it to UK, and when the Brits will get wise, I'll move it to Switzerland,
and then to Russia, China and so on. I'm sure I'll find somebody glad to take my
money.

Regulate this NFA.
Mali  - Free Market   |2009-05-10 23:00:01
Those who are dumb enough to hedge should be able to do that. Isn't this how the
free market works?

Otherwise how do smart traders who are willing to put time
and effort to learn the markets earn a living....
Anonymous  - fifo   |2009-05-11 01:20:56
Hey Mali, how are you going to have multiple positions opened (better said how
are you going to close the one you want) with the new FIFO rule? Can you answer
that, as you are not one of the dumb ones around here, like the rest of us?
Anonymous  - fifo   |2009-05-11 01:33:41
here's some info for you mali to chew on (and all the other pro regulation
people)

http://blogs.fxstreet.com/francesc/2009
/05/05/update1-nfa-not-allowing-stop-and-limit-ord
ers-fifo-delayed-to-july-31st/
John Jagerson  - Free Market   |2009-05-11 03:06:11
Mali - LOL good comment.

However, I do agree that the regulation debate is a
good one and there is such a thing as too much regulation but the
anti-regulation folks should keep in mind that the hedging rule came with new
regulations that prevents forex dealers from adjusting prices on you except in
rare circumstances. That is the flip-side to regulation. It does sometimes
constrain the trader but other times it keeps the dealers in check as
well.

Oh by the way - don't believe everything you hear on the internet about
stops and limits.
Marc Bamo  - this new rule has cut my income by half   |2009-05-12 06:31:12
I do not understand how any experienced trader can say hedging is not useful.
The hypothetical trade made in this article used hedging the wrong way.
Here is
a hedging example trade that I use in range bound market:
I as many other
traders use hedging to buy and sell 1k unit and wait until the currency pair
travels 100 pips. which ever way the currency goes I win $10. Thats $10 in the
bank, no one can take that away from me. As for the trade that I lost on here i
would make the same trade again but this time i would double my money and i keep
doing that untill the market flips and returns all my moey back. While doing
that of course i would always have a 1k trade runing the opposite direction
which would insure me another $10.
now i can only buy or sell. what a bitch.
Josh  - you can trade opposing positions without 'hedging'   |2009-05-14 10:15:48
I think many people don't understand how to make money when the market moves
either way. But that's why 90% of traders fail so it is no surprise. I don't
really "hedge" but what i do is have long term trades going but also
want to make money in the smaller intraday movements up or down of a currency. I
see nothing wrong with that and it works well if you trade it right.
Josh  - offshore   |2009-05-14 10:23:03
I as well will be moving my account overseas. I think all the new restrictions
will have many more following suit.
swadehansen  - Hedging vs. Stopping and Reversing Your Trades   |2009-05-14 10:56:56
I’m having a hard time understanding the argument that keeps coming up from
traders who say they want to be able to hedge because it allows them to have a
long-term trade on but still make shorter-term scalping trades in the opposite
direction. They claim this strategy enables them to make more money than simply
closing out of their longer-term trade, taking the shorter-term trade and then
re-opening a new longer-term trade. But how?

Let’s walk through both
scenarios and do the math.

Scenario #1: Hedging

Let’s say you buy the
EUR/USD at 1.3000 as a longer-term trade and the EUR/USD ends up moving to
1.4000. Since you were able to hedge, you never had to exit this trade, and you
end up making 1,000 pips (1.4000 – 1.3000 = 1,000 pips).

Along the way,
however, you decided to take two trades that went in the opposite direction.
Since you were able to hedge, you just added these two trades on top of your
othe...
swadehansen  - Hedging vs. Stopping and Reversing Your Trades - 2   |2009-05-14 10:57:50
Along the way, however, you decided to take two trades that went in the opposite
direction. Since you were able to hedge, you just added these two trades on top
of your other trade.

The first trade was a short trade you entered at 1.3400
and exited at 1.3300---netting you 100 pips (1.3400 – 1.3300 = 100 pips)---and
the second trade was a short trade you entered at 1.3800 and exited at
1.3700---netting you another 100 pips (1.3800 – 1.3700 = 100 pips).

When
you put it all together, you made a total of 1,200 pips (1,000 + 100 + 100 =
1,200) on your trades in Scenario #1. Not too shabby.
swadehansen  - Hedging vs. Stopping and Reversing Your Trades - 3   |2009-05-14 10:58:21
Now let’s take a look at the second scenario.

Scenario #2: Exiting and
Re-Entering

Let’s say you saw all of the same trading opportunities in this
scenario, but instead of hedging, you would stop and reverse your trade each
time. Here’s what it would look like.

Let’s say you buy the EUR/USD at
1.3000 as a longer-term trade, and the EUR/USD ends up moving to 1.4000. But
before it can get there, you notice a great opportunity to short the EUR/USD at
1.3400. So you exit your trade---netting a profit of 400 pips (1.3400 – 1.3000
= 400 pips)---and you enter a new short trade.
swadehansen  - Hedging vs. Stopping and Reversing Your Trades - 4   |2009-05-14 10:58:49
This new short trade works out just as planned and you enter short at 1.3400 and
exit the trade at 1.3300---netting you 100 pips (1.3400 – 1.3300 = 100 pips).


Now you decide to re-enter your longer-term trade because you still believe
in the overall uptrend. So you buy the EUR/USD at 1.3300 (the price at which you
just exited your short trade) as a longer-term trade, and the EUR/USD keeps
making its way up higher to 1.4000. But before it can get there, you notice
another great opportunity to short the EUR/USD at 1.3800. So you exit your
trade---netting a profit of 500 pips (1.3800 – 1.3300 = 500 pips)---and you
enter a new short trade.

This new short trade works out just as planned and
you enter short at 1.3800 and exit the trade at 1.3700---netting you 100 pips
(1.3800 – 1.3700 = 100 pips).
swadehansen  - Hedging vs. Stopping and Reversing Your Trades - 5   |2009-05-14 10:59:06
Now you decide to re-enter your longer-term trade for the last time because you
still believe in the overall uptrend. So you buy the EUR/USD at 1.3700 (the
price at which you just exited your short trade) as a longer-term trade, and the
EUR/USD keeps making its way up higher to 1.4000. Finally, you decide it is time
to exit your longer-term trade at 1.4000---netting a profit of 300 pips (1.4000
– 1.3700 = 300 pips).

When you put it all together, you made a total of
1,200 pips (400 + 100 + 500 + 100 + 300 = 1,400) on your trades in Scenario #2.


That’s 200 pips, or 17% better, than you would have done in Scenario
#1.

Once again, I ask how hedging is better than just stopping and reversing
your trades? I submit that it is not.
Anonymous  - @swadenhansen   |2009-05-15 08:42:09
How about all the spreads you are paying for this strategy? Had you been able to
hold on the long trade, you would only pay the broker spreads for the short term
ones.
swadehansen  - Spreads   |2009-05-16 16:33:33
In my example (Scenario #1) above, assuming a 2 pip spread for the EUR/USD, you
would have paid 6 pips in spread costs. In Scenario #2, again assuming a 2 pip
spread, you would have paid 10 pips in spread costs. In other words, you would
have paid an additional 4 pips in Scenario #2.

You more than compensate for
these 4 pips lost to the spread in Scenario #2 with the additional 200 pips of
profit.
Sipro  - I make 3860 Euro on HEDGING   |2009-06-05 08:58:09
I live of Hedging

This is the must stupid video I've seen in my life.
The
video is designed not to scare customers away from a U.S.
brokers to Europe
brokers.
My Trader friend took a $ 5000 course in New York in
January
What
he learned there. Benefit of Hedging and how he is can make
maximum advantage
of Hedging.
This is trading a course where the pros and only professionals
teachers are going.
In other words, trading course for the big boys. In other
words, for the 3% who survive in this game.


In my day trading system is
Hedging an essential part of my system.
Took 386 Pips today because of my
Hedging trading system, with
other words
3860, - Euro in one day
Rob
Spiro
John Jagerson  - Paying for education   |2009-06-05 09:02:47
Rob,

The only part of your comment I actually believe is that you actually
paid $5,000 for a "training course." Good luck with that.
Jason   |2009-06-16 14:49:38
Very simple change from a US broker. I live in Australia and all brokers here
allow hedging still and could not care less, we are not governed by the stupid
US rules thank god.

Plus you can use any EA you like, my broker here makes
there money via the spreads only, so they dont care if you win all the time
:)

Problem solved!
Robert  - Rules   |2009-07-04 00:26:32
For all that think regulators are welcome, if you want somebody to protect you,
be a public employee instead of jumping into a free market.
This is the 1st
signal. More will come for sure. So the regulators are willing to stop people to
make profits? Go to hell!!
Paul M.  - John J. must not have been a good trader.....   |2009-07-04 14:00:13
or never traded at all...just like the monkeys at the SEC who thought not
letting people short against a stock would prevent it from going down.....BOOM!!
many bank stocks went down anyway....again the NFA should have any client that
wants to hedge sign a disclosure stating they understand the risks....Less
regulation and more enforcement....
Anonymous   |2009-07-04 22:12:03
I dont think so, John seems very knowledgable. Although based on his videos he
doesnt seem to be a day trader. Maybe a longer term trader but to accuse him of
not being a trader seems flat out wrong. The fact that people like him take
their time to offer FREE content is admirable.

I agree though with yur
statement that the NFA should just have the client sign a form that explicitly
states the risks of hedging and maybe a warning from SEC then ban all
advertising of hedging. As you say Less work. More enforcement
ME  - ME   |2009-07-07 11:37:09
Guys, use your heads. There is no logical reason for them to remove a
capability that previously existed, that the rest of the world retains, unless
there is some other purpose.

Whoever wrote this artical misses the point
that hedging allows you to close otherwise unprofitable trades at a later time
when they are in profit.

And notice that no firms contested the NFA's
questions by providing any examples that I could provide to you that I use to
trade.

I currently use a strategy that enables me to turn most of my losing
trades into winners. It requires hedging. I only recently discovered this
phenomina. I believe that the NFA saw something using heding and stop losses
that sucks money from the market and that someone has gotten scared.

Also,
although I have moved offshore to another firm, I'm sure taking that temporary
stop gap measure will surely NOT go unpunished by the NFA or some other US Gov.
agency....
ME  - ME   |2009-07-07 11:43:24
Rather than complaining to the walls here, or entering into useless debate, why
don't we try an experiment. For all those people who want the new rule to go
away, why don't you join me in phoning the NFA over and over again 24/7 until we
shut down their phone systems with complaints until they lift the ban. My
question is, if they really are out to help us, let's see if they will listen to
us. Those of you who don't agree, then you can just not enter in to any hedges
yourself...
ME  - ME   |2009-07-07 12:03:08
Also, let's not forget one other important fact. We just had an election and
the politicians latched on to the word "Hedging" as an evil word. i.e.
Hedge Funds, Speculators Hedging in commodities, Madoff "Hedge" fund...
etc... Therefore, anything with the word Hedge as part of it's name will soon be
outlawed. So you might as well have your lanscaper cut down your Hedges now
before the new Hedge Tax is imposed.
smoker  - it is like cigars   |2009-07-27 00:06:36
smoking is not healthy but still all of us smoke
smoker  - To tell the truth   |2009-07-27 00:07:54
There are many intellegent guys out there. I would like to add my experience of
20years trading FX. I tend to agree with the anti-hedging group but having said
that I would like to add that I still use hedging sometimes. There are times
that instead of a STOP I hedge so that I remain focused in the market and would
continue my concentration on the next available level. Taking a decision on
every level make more successful trading then just exiting and starting or
hesitating to start agin. Its not phycological but it is practical. This is the
only advantage of hedging which I have learned in 20 years. Some people's
arguments in favor of hedging earlier were absurd.
Hedger  - Smoker is 100% correct   |2009-07-28 00:39:38
I was trapped into FOREX by a dealer who preached hedging but after burning alot
of my money now I am playing with my friend's money. I totally agree with the
earlier comments from smoker (strange name) but believe me it is very difficult
to make someone understand what is said in this video especially if the person
is new. Now my friends are not willing to close positions rather they tell me to
hedge. Anyhow hedging continues and I end up making good commissions.
Url   |2009-08-02 07:38:34
The comments here reflect the foolishness promoted by the ‘operators’ who
sell their largely useless, high priced trading systems. Reminds me of the
suppliers to many of the gold rushes of the world who were the ones who profited
while the most of the miners slogged it out in the dirt to make just enough to
buy their high priced supplies.
Seems to be some confusion yet about the
inability to place a limit or stop order on an open trade, that troubles me.

If you folks studied Elliott wave and Fibonacci retracements and projections
you would know where the market was going and wouldn’t need to hedge. One of
the brightest traders I ever listened to, said hedging is for people who have no
idea where the market is going next.
Ahlam  - Overseas account   |2009-10-26 10:14:11
I didn't really care much for this new regulation since my broker is based
overseas. However, to my surprise they have just noticed their clients that
starting Q1 2010 they will close all US based clients' accounts. This really
sucks. So now as I am looking for a new broker, I was hoping to find one here in
the US. Now, I like hedging and I understand the idea behind the new regulation.
But for a lot of traders like me, I do not want to close a negative position. I
just wont unless I hedge against it little by little and am completely able to
cover it. The psychological effect of closing negative versus going against your
position to make some +profit is significant ( the effect). So now I guess, back
to looking for a new broker overseas. And finally, whether I hedge or not, I
just want to know that when I want to I can freely hedge. After all, it is my
account, my money, NFA stay out of it. If they want to regulate forex broker...
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